Love + Money – How Complicated Is This Relationship?

Season 3, Episode 2

Our recent Love + Money survey found that romance and finance aren’t always a perfect match. To break down the survey results and share their own relationship’s financial journey, Drs. Joshua and Nicolet Hernandez join us for a wide-ranging discussion on financial compatibility in romantic relationships.

Transcript

Eric Sutton [00:00:08] Hi everyone. This is Eric and you’re listening to Financing Ambition, a Laurel Road podcast.

On today’s episode, we’re going to be talking about love and money. And with Valentine’s Day this month, it’s the perfect time of year to take a closer look at a topic many couples contend with: Finances.

Romance and finance are not always the perfect pair, so to get a pulse on the status of this relationship, Laurel Road recently conducted a survey of 2,200 American adults, including 492 millennials and 291 Gen Z-ers, to find out how conversations around money are playing out in personal relationships. Our survey found that over a third of US adults rate financial values and goals as one of the top three areas for compatibility with a romantic partner.

So, to talk through the details of the survey results and to share their own relationships financial journey, I’m pleased to welcome back to the podcast Dr. Nicolet Hernandez, who’s joining us today with her husband, Dr. Joshua Hernandez. Thank you both for being with us today.

Dr. Nicolet Hernandez [00:01:20] Thanks for having us.

Dr. Joshua Hernandez [00:01:22] Yes, thanks for having us. We’re excited to be here.

Eric Sutton [00:01:24] Well, I’m glad to have you both here as well. And I’m very glad that our listeners can hear perspectives on the financial challenges that doctors might face in a relationship as their careers get started, you know, and not just from one, but from two doctors. So, that’ll be great. Let’s get started – maybe with a quick introduction for our listeners so they can get to know each of you a little bit better. If you don’t mind telling us where you’re based and where you went to med school. And in the spirit of Valentine’s Day, maybe a little bit about your own love story. How did you meet and how long have you been together, etc.? Nicolet, if it’s okay, we’ll start with you and then we’ll move over to Josh.

Dr. Nicolet Hernandez [00:02:06] Hi, Eric. It’s great to be back on the podcast. So, I’m Dr. Nicolet Hernandez, previously Dr. Finger for those who may have known my maiden name. So, we are in San Antonio. I’m currently finishing up my fourth year in residency at UT Health Science Center in San Antonio, and I’m specializing in physical medicine and rehabilitation, also called PMR. After graduating residency this year, I will start my attending job working at an inpatient rehab facility, which is one of my favorite parts of PMR. Inpatient rehab and headache management are kind of my bread and butter. Joshua and I met in medical school at UNT Health Science Center in Fort Worth. He was a year ahead of me, and he was studying for his Step One at the time. So needless to say, we got to know each other through many study dates. We’ve been together for seven years now and married for three, and now we’re expecting a baby next week. Or really, any day. Well, our due date is Valentine’s Day!

Eric Sutton [00:03:11] Congrats. That’s really awesome. Great news – congrats to you both!

Dr. Joshua Hernandez [00:03:16] Thank you. Eric. Very excited to be here as well. You know, I, am excited, along with Nicolet, for our soon-to-be baby. And, just a little background on myself. I am currently working at a hospital here in San Antonio, Texas. I’m, serving as, Chief of Medicine and Associate Medical Director, which I’ve been doing for the past year and a half now. I started here after my residency in Laredo, Texas, which, you know, where I’m currently at in San Antonio is pretty close to the same population place. So, it’s, very similar in type job and patient population. Prior to my residency, I went to medical school in, UNT Health Science Center in Fort Worth, Texas, where I was fortunate enough to meet Nicolet. And the rest is history. Actually, we had a deal of ups and downs. After and through medical school, we had to support each other through board exams and studying and rotations and even spent three years long distance during my residency, which was a hardship that we had to work through and overcome.

I think the key for all of that was really our open communication, which is always been pretty much the cornerstone of our relationship. And from the get-go, you know, as a medical student and then resident and then as a physician in general, I think it’s really important that in a relationship that is really, a primary factor and component is that communication is always front and center. And I think we’ve done a great job doing that, which has really helped us and served us well and planning and getting ready to where we’re at now, which is looking to purchase a house and moving forward with our lives.

Eric Sutton [00:05:08] Okay. Thank you for sharing your backgrounds to both of you. And for also sharing a little bit about your love story. And, you know, I recall actually from our prior episode, Nicolet, with you when we talked about the financial challenges that doctors face during residency, you mentioned then being in a long-distance relationship and the challenge, you know, that came with budgeting for that travel every month. So, good that we’ve come full circle here and can talk about that a little deeper. And, you know, I think actually budgeting as a couple is a really good place to start our discussion today, because we found in our survey, excuse me, that 46% of those currently in a relationship discuss budgets and finances with their partner, at least weekly.

So, talking about communication being super important, which I couldn’t agree with more. By the way, would you say that you discuss finances weekly or is it maybe a different cadence? Or, you know, how do you approach budgeting discussions? Josh, if you don’t mind, let’s hear from you first.

Dr. Joshua Hernandez [00:06:12] Absolutely. Yeah. I think that’s a huge factor. And I think we do make it a priority. We, we probably discuss more than weekly. It’s not a scheduled discussion, but it is something that we talk about frequently. Whether it’s small or large purchases or general budgeting or, any of those, factors, we spend, the needed time whenever it comes up to discuss it as a couple and make sure that it’s, communicated well between us. And both of us are on the same page. For me, my philosophy was always pretty simple. You know, before I met Nicolet, I was one of those just don’t spend anything type people. I always live below my means. I don’t really like frivolous spending, and thankfully, they’re just Nicolet, so that’s really helped us as a couple that we were financially compatible, which is something we weigh pretty heavily as a couple.

Communication has been key. As we mentioned earlier, we discussed financial decisions frequently, planning for large purchases. We hold each other accountable for saving, but we allow room for, you know, we like to have our luxuries every now and then, but within reason. And we keep it, you know, on our budget, which is. Constantly updated and adjusted for where we’re at in our lives. And that’s why I think it’s so important to keep that open communication and frequent communication. Fortunately for us, we’ve always had pretty similar approaches. And we identified that really early on in our relationship, which I think has really served us well. Though Nicolet is definitely the more organized of the two of us. She’s the one with the spreadsheets and the, you know, extensive budgeting plans. I’m more of the conservative spending and save money type person and work hard. So together, I think it works out pretty well that we know what our strengths and weaknesses are, and we balance each other out in that regard

Eric Sutton [00:08:08] Absolutely. Yeah. Somebody’s got to have the spreadsheets, right. But like you’re saying, there’s regular transparent financial discussions are super important for couples. And, you know, actually, among Gen Z and millennial respondents in the survey I mentioned who were asked about the tools they use to help manage finances with their romantic partner, the category of discussions with your partner about budget and financial goals was the most popular category, and that beat out other categories like budgeting apps, expense splitting apps, document sharing platforms. So, even among the most tech savvy of us, you know, just having that open and honest dialog with your partner still seems to be the tried-and-true preference, maybe with a spreadsheet on the side.

That being said though, are there any tools that you find helpful to your financial discussions or that you both use to stay on track with your financial goals as a couple? Nicolet, how about we start with you on this one?

Dr. Nicolet Hernandez [00:09:13] Absolutely. So, I am definitely a spreadsheet gal. Like Joshua said. I put everything on spreadsheets. So, I’d say that’s my favorite organization method and how I plan out our budget for each month. There are a lot of really cool budgeting apps and calculators available, if that’s the type of person you are. I know Laurel Road has one. I think you just have to find what works for you so you can see all of your finances in front of you. And budget that way.

We have been in savings mode the past couple of years since Joshua started his attending job. You know, with me being in residency, we decided not quite the live like a resident philosophy. We don’t want to be uncomfortable. We live comfortably, but we actually have not increased our cost of living since residency. So essentially, to budget these past couple of years, we started with what our combined income was when we were both in residency and budgeted our needs and our wants within that amount, and then we saved the rest. So, we’ve done this on purpose because we had specific financial goals such as buying a house, starting a family, which we’re about to see pay off, which is pretty cool. We had specific numbers in mind for what we needed to save for our goals, and we discussed each month how we were progressing. And of course, we talked about it and talked. You know, very frequently, including any large purchases. And often this is not just a one discussion, but it’s multiple over several months or even years to make, you know, big financial decisions such as buying a home or starting a family.

Eric Sutton [00:10:59] Okay, that’s interesting to hear how you know, you’re handling discussions about financial aspects of major relationship milestones as your love story progresses. And your story tracks with our survey findings. You know that most couples discuss their financial situations before they make these major commitments or plan these major milestones. You know, like moving or getting married or, in your case, growing your family. So, I’m curious now that your family is growing and you’re moving into this new phase of your relationship as parents, which is super exciting! Will anything change, do you think, about how you approach budgeting as a couple? Josh, maybe we could get your thoughts first and then hand it over to Nicolet.

Dr. Joshua Hernandez [00:11:47] Absolutely. So as Nicolet mentioned, we do everything as a couple and, we have planned and coordinated, and communicated on all of these major decisions. You know, when it comes down to it, we share my money is our money. Her money is her money. No, seriously, though, we do it all together. Everything is combined, and we face and plan each aspect of our finances together. We. Things will change. We know they’re going to change. We have, you know, house plan, child on the way. Life changing fast at this point. But I think the key to all of it has been that we talked early and frequently about it, and that we made those plans ahead of time so that nothing was really a surprise. And when there were surprises, we were prepared for them. And I think that’s been a major factor in in our success and hopefully our future success is that we’re not afraid to talk about something. And if something comes up that’s uncomfortable or feels like maybe it’s too early or out of place, that we face it, we discuss it, we figure out why it’s a concern and what we can do to, overcome it and plan well ahead. And we leave that leeway in our budget, in our planning, so that if there is an obstacle that was unforeseen, which there always is, and we know it’s a child on the way, there’s only more of that to come. But we’re prepared for it. And we can have comfort in knowing that we are not facing it totally unprepared. But that we’ve already pre discussed and pre planned for as much as we possibly could and we have some leeway in there to help us through each situation.

Dr. Nicolet Hernandez [00:13:27] Yeah, I completely agree with what Josh has said. Overall we are very debt averse. So of course we have student loans. How can you come out of medical school without them? But like Josh said, we share everything. So we have got joint accounts, my incomes, his income, vice versa. His debt, my debt, vice versa. This works really well for us. It may not for everybody, but for us. It allows us to approach every financial decision as a team. As we’ve mentioned a couple times where we are in the process of buying a house and that will add to our debt. But because we had this set up as a goal, from a couple of years ago, we’ve been able to save up for a down payment and kind of budget in advance.

As far as student loan payments, these are regular monthly payments that we have already worked into our current budget. And so we’ve prepared pretty well for this transition. And really what will change is the percentage of income that we are able to save. That’s going to be where we take a little bit of extra money and put towards childcare expenses and home expenses. We do not have credit card debt. This is extremely important to us. I love using credit cards. Don’t get me wrong, I love the cashback, the miles, the points. I reap all the benefits, but I am a firm believer that the risks outweigh the benefits. If you go into credit card debt. So, we pay our credit cards off in full each month and we never spend more than we have.

Eric Sutton [00:15:02] Yes. And I’m really glad that you brought up student loan debt and debt in general. That was something we asked couples about in depth in our Love and Money survey. And one trend that we found was that Gen Z and millennials tended to think a discussion about debt should come earlier in the progression of relationship. 43% of both Gen Z and millennial respondents felt that before moving in together, was the right sage in the relationship to talk debt. Compared to 52% of Gen X, 57% of Boomers, and 72% of the silent generation. Each group progressively feeling that it should come further and further along in the progression.

So, as a couple where both partners went to med school, I’m sure you’ve had many conversations about student loan debt during your relationship. Josh, can you talk a little bit about what stage in the relationship you started to discuss student loan debt and what the management of debt would look like as a couple?

Dr. Joshua Hernandez [00:16:07] Yes, I think that’s a really important factor for physicians and young doctors to address early on in their relationship for us. Like we said before, you know, communication being key. We talked about that pretty early on. That was something that we didn’t want to have as a surprise or hidden or and not that we were concerned, but that we wanted to make sure that our relationship was open to anything. So nothing was taboo. And we could discuss anything openly and plan together. And I think that’s when we really solidified as a couple that, you know, we were facing this together and that we really were going to move forward as a couple in all regards. We addressed it fairly early on. We were still dating at the time. I definitely had plans for more than dating in the future, whether Nicolet did or not at that time. But we had to kind of move forward with that discussion and plan because life moves fast, especially as a, you know, physician and training. I was a medical student transitioning to residency. And, you know, that is a factor there, and it has to be addressed, and you have to be open about it and realistic about it. And despite, you know, having a career that can compensate for that, you have to make sure your partner is on the same page and that you’re together going to have the same goals, the same principles that’ll drive how you budget, how you plan, and the major financial decisions you make as you move forward as a couple in a relationship.

Thankfully, we were able to be transparent, discuss about it openly, and plan well for, managing debt. And even, you know, other aspects as far as saving, investments and, you know, now purchasing a house.

Eric Sutton [00:18:02] It’s interesting to hear what stage in your relationship you started that discussion. You know, further to what I was saying before our, our survey found that only 5% of millennials and only 3% of Gen Z-ers feel like it’s good to discuss debt with a romantic partner while on your first date. So little of, aversion to early discussions of debt. It seems like in younger generations, whereas 29% of millennials and 27% of Gen Z-ers felt that it might be better to discuss when you’re officially, quote unquote, in a relationship. So, Nicolet, over to you. What do you what are your thoughts on on when partners should start a discussion about debt in earnest?

Dr. Nicolet Hernandez [00:18:45] I definitely agree that, you know, first date might be a little early, but I think as soon as you’re in a serious, committed relationship, you need to talk about debt and finance financials in general. You should know each other’s financial habits and what they like to spend their money on. You know what they like to save on. Joshua and I were always open about this from the start, and though we did keep our finances separate until we were married, we were very transparent way before that point.

Eric Sutton [00:19:18] That’s really helpful for our listeners who are early career doctors, I’m sure. And we really appreciate you both being so open about what works for you financially and about what your challenges have been.

Now, here’s where our discussion might get a little juicy. I’m going to have to put you both in the hot seat a little bit now, because one section of our Love and Money survey was about financial incompatibility and even financial infidelity. Our survey found that financial infidelity is not uncommon, unfortunately, with about 2 in 5 respondents who’ve been in relationships reporting that one partner has hidden spending from the other partner. And, additionally, 24% have had their partner hide spending habits from them, while 22% have admitted to hiding their spending habits from their partner.

So, let’s play a little game if you don’t mind. If he said she said about, financial challenges, I’d love to hear about maybe a financial challenge that you two had as a couple and how you ultimately overcame it. Nicolet, I think we should start with you and then maybe hand over to Josh.

Dr. Nicolet Hernandez [00:20:35] Absolutely. So, while we don’t hide – I think we don’t think we hide spending habits from one another – we have definitely had differing opinions on what to do with our money over the years, and these are just conversations that we have to work through.

For example, Joshua and I recently had to sit down and decide before, you know, we were going to buy a home, what was our budget going to be? And neither of us have ever been homeowners before. We’ve rented through all of our “starter home years.” And so, this is a huge financial decision for us. And it’s still a bit scary going through the process.

We each had things that we really wanted in a home. So, we started by looking at homes that met those preferences to get an idea of maybe what that would cost. And then we had to have a very realistic conversation about what we could afford, and I say a very realistic conversation. This was probably like millions of conversation over to two years. Right? And not just what we could afford, but what we actually wanted to spend out of our monthly income each month on a mortgage, because we still want a good amount to save for student loans for our, our child’s college fund, our retirement accounts, etc., you know, even traveling.

So, this took a lot of back and forth discussion. And I think, you know, really what we learned is that eventually we will get to a conclusion that works for both of us. We just have to keep talking about it.

Eric Sutton [00:22:13] Yeah. All right, your turn. Josh, get on in the hot seat there and let us, hear your story.

Dr. Joshua Hernandez [00:22:21] So I just have to say, I love that term “financial infidelity.” I think it really denotes the, the weight of those kind of, decisions that are made unilaterally in a relationship. It’s, you know, as important as any other type of infidelity, I think, because it can be just as divisive. And for us, I think that’s an important thing that we both realized early on, is that we don’t want to have any secrets.

And as far as finances go or anything, but we really, you know, the communication part and keeping our finances open and constantly communicated has really been a key factor. I think it can go both ways. I think you can be overly frugal or overly liberal with your spending habits, and people fall somewhere on the spectrum. And as a couple, no one’s 100% compatible, but people can be very far apart on that. And so, I think it’s important that it’s addressed early on where you’re at, and your partner is compatible in that aspect.

For us, I agree, one of the biggest things we’ve had to plan through and budget for – and it’s been a long time in the works – is for our house, which is for most couples, I think, their biggest purchase that they’ll make together or as an individual. And so, we spent a lot of time early on discussing that and planning. That includes the several years that we hadn’t have not been in the House, that we’ve been saving up for our first home purchase. Like Nicolet mentioned, we skipped the years of the starter home. And we have, been saving and building, what we can to put towards our first home. And that’s a choice. And we had to make that decision together and plan how to budget throughout these past few years to really make that dream of our first home become a reality. And I think luckily for us, it’s paid off and we’re about to see it all come to fruition.

Eric Sutton [00:24:21] And you found that most of the time you were on the same page about the road map there, or did you run into moments where you had differing opinions about the next best step in terms of making that plan, come to life?

Dr. Joshua Hernandez [00:24:40] We definitely don’t always have a perfect eye-to-eye perspective. I think because we were compatible at the beginning, we are closer enough that it’s very reasonable. But we’ve had conversations where the budget of what we’re trying to save for and how much we would spend on a house and what that means, as far as, you know, saving and sacrifices in between. We’ve had to come to terms with what each other’s perspective were.

For example, we both have paid off cars and we didn’t find it a priority to purchase a new car. But there have been times it’s been tempting, and we’ve had to have those conversations to remind ourselves that we’re saving for something larger. And those kinds of purchases are just not necessary at this time, even though they could be of, you know, personal value or, enjoyment, we have to keep in mind that as a couple, we have a goal and we have a plan. And I think for the most part, you know, they were minor difficulties to overcome. But I think the key was we started early with those talks and we continued frequently discussing those things.

Eric Sutton [00:25:51] Thank you both for being really great sports and sharing those relationship challenges and how you overcame them. I think it’s super important in the world of social media to shine a light on these more difficult financial aspects of long-term partnership. These are not the discussions you see couples posting about, you know, but our listeners should know that long term relationships are maybe not as picture perfect as they might appear to be on Instagram.

And you know that having difficult financial discussions, is totally normal and that they can get through it with good communication and transparency. All right. So, we are getting toward the end of our time together. But let’s close out today’s discussion with a question. Since we talked too much about the importance of communication and transparency in couples’ financial health, what advice might you give to another couple who is struggling to see eye to eye on an aspect of their financial life, whether it be how much to save, how to approach debt? Should they buy that fancy car, you know, or prioritize different financial goals entirely? Nicolet, maybe we can start with you.

Dr. Nicolet Hernandez [00:27:04] Yeah. So, I think the biggest thing when we say, you know, you have to communicate – communication is important. Everybody hears that and we know it. But how do you actually do that. Right. How do you do that appropriately and, have a productive conversation. Because that’s the hardest part. I think a lot of the times, these conversations, at least in Joshua and I’s experience, are not planned. We don’t sit down and say, hey, right now is our meeting time to have this financial conversation. It’s usually actually at the worst time, like we’re sitting in the parking lot at the gym and I bring up something, and now we’re we don’t go in the gym for 30 minutes because we got stuck talking about something. And I think the biggest lesson I’ve learned and, and the tip I want to share coming from that, is that even if you think it’s the wrong time or that something’s going to start a fight or it’s going to cause a disagreement, just bring it up anyways. You both need to have the understanding that it might come out wrong the first time, and you both have to know that the other person is attempting to work together on this. So even if it comes out harsh, you know you have to then take that conversation and guide it into a productive one. And it may not and probably will not just be one conversation. It will take months. And in Joshua and I’s case, even years to come to a decision depending on the financial goal that you’re discussing. And that’s okay.

Eric Sutton [00:28:37] Josh, what do you think, too? I mean, are you guys vision boarding? Is that how you’re ensuring that when you, when you have to address a certain topic that you both have your eye on the same prize? I’m curious. It sounds like for the two of you having that common goal and being so aligned in that common goal has helped to not have a lot of conflicts in terms of, deciding what direction to take your finances, but also, seems to have made it a little easier to resolve any differences that might have popped up. Would you agree with that, or do you have anything else you might want to add there?

Dr. Joshua Hernandez [00:29:19] I absolutely agree with that. I think for us it’s not so much a vision board, but we do keep a common goal and vision in mind. We do have our –as you mentioned before – spreadsheets that we review. And, you know, it’s not just even a singular goal, it’s that we, we utilize that resource and the communication on multiple fronts, whether it’s paying off debt, saving, putting investments aside, planning for a child in the future, we have discussed each aspect of it and made a plan for each part of our budget and finance overall so that we’re comfortable with it. And we know that discussion has been, you know, whittled down to its roots, and we both are aware of what we’re doing and why we’re doing it. And that bleeds into the day-to-day. You know, the little spending habits that get in the way you still have in the back of your mind. Well, this is why I’m saving for this. This is why I’m putting this away. This is what we agreed on. This is what we talked about.

And I think that’s, you know, if I give a pointer to add on to that, it’s that especially as a couple – budgeting and planning ­– you have to be compassionate towards your partner and you have to be reasonable and you have to be open to not everything is going to be 100% your way. And that could be, like I said, either way, you could be on the more conservative side where you don’t want to spend anything, which can be limiting to your partner. You can be on the other side where you want to spend all the time, and that can be also limiting to your partner. And I think knowing where your partner’s at and meeting them where you can and knowing that you can meet them there is really important. And setting that precedent early in the relationship really helps.

And so for us, I think it’s really just been the having the budget plan from the start, knowing where we both stand financially, and what our spending habits are, and never being afraid to address topics even if they’re difficult, knowing that we can deal with it as a couple.

Eric Sutton [00:31:26] It sounds like the two of you are really good examples of why it’s important to start that financial discussion early in on in a relationship. It feels like the more you know about your financial compatibility upfront, the = better you’re setting yourself up for success through for a lifetime.

So, thank you both again for being here with us today. And big congratulations again for me and the Laurel Road team on your exciting new upcoming chapter as parents, we’re going to be thinking of you next week, and please do send us baby pics when the little one arrives. We’d love to see them!

Dr. Nicolet Hernandez [00:32:03] Thank you so much! We are so excited and it’s always good being on the Laurel Road podcast, so I look forward to our conversation next time.

Dr. Joshua Hernandez [00:32:11] Thank you so much, Eric for hosting us. And again, we really appreciate being here with the Lord and look forward to maybe future discussions as well.

Eric Sutton [00:32:20] Excellent. Thank you also to everyone out there for listening. Please stay tuned for the next episode of Financing Ambition, Season 3. For more information, follow Laurel Road on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn and visit us online at laurelroad.com.

Episode References

Financial Survey: The Truth About Love & Finances

Disclosures: 

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This podcast is produced for information purposes only and is not an offer or solicitation of any product. Any views, opinions, findings and conclusions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the participants and do not necessarily reflect the views of Laurel Road or its affiliates. Laurel Road, KeyBank and its affiliates are not providing any financial, economic, legal, accounting or tax advice or recommendations in this podcast. The information contained in this recording may not be current, and Laurel Road has no obligation to provide any updates or changes. Neither Laurel Road nor any of its affiliates makes any representation or warranty, of any kind, as to the accuracy or completeness of the information in this podcast and expressly disclaims any and all liabilities around such.

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