I’m Also a Doctor, Part II: A Deep Dive with Dr. Ravitz and Dr. Atia

Season 2, Episode 3

In this follow-up episode, take a deep dive with Drs. Ravitz and Atia to learn about the adventurous, ocean-related passions that help them disconnect, find balance, and become better doctors.

Transcript

Eric Sutton [00:00:8] Hi, everyone. This is Eric, and you’re listening to Financing Ambition, a Laurel Road podcast. We’re excited to welcome two more very impressive doctors to the show today, Dr. Risa Ravitz and Dr. Hanan Atia, who are both featured in our docuseries, I’m Also a Doctor. The series highlights physicians and dentists who pursue extraordinary interests outside of their medical careers and examines the influence these activities have on their mental health and job performance. If you’ve been following along, a previous Financing Ambition episode also featured three doctors from the series — Dr. Christine Millar, Dr. Fong Nguyen, and Dr. Alexis Phaup.

So, today, we’ll be following up with a Part II. You can listen to our previous I’m Also a Doctor episode at laurelroad.com/podcast. That’ll be Episode 14, and you can watch the entire I’m Also A Doctor docuseries on laurelroad.com/imalsoadoctor. So, without further ado, I am very happy to introduce today’s guests, Dr. Risa Ravitz and Dr. Hanan Atia.

Dr. Atia [00:01:22] Happy to be here. Thank you for having us.

Dr. Ravitz [00:01:24] Thank you. Thank you for having us as well. Eric, great to be here.

Eric Sutton [00:01:27] Awesome. Okay, let’s kick off then by hearing from each of you about your medical specialty, first of all, and also what your outside passion project is. Why don’t we get started with you first, Dr. Ravitz?

Dr. Ravitz [00:01:40] Thanks, Eric. So, I am a neurologist. I’m based in New York City. I went to medical school in Philadelphia and then traveled all over to complete my training in Colorado and then in Los Angeles. I’ve been practicing general neurology and specifically headache medicine and pain medicine for about ten years – wow! – now. And in addition to being a neurologist, I’m also a surfer.

Eric Sutton [00:02:10] Very cool. Dr. Atia, what about you?

Dr. Atia [00:02:13] Yeah, Thanks, Eric. My name is Hanan Atia I’m an ER doc from South Florida, finished residency about five years ago. Currently, I’m Associate Director at a large Level 1 trauma and comprehensive stroke center down here. I actually grew up in New York and went up to Boston for undergrad. And after college I moved to Israel, where I did some of my formal medical training in addition to some focus on international health and global health. And I decided to move back to the cold and did my residency at University of Connecticut, and after residency, decided to move down to Florida, where I practice full-time emergency medicine. I’m also a clinical instructor and core faculty with our relatively newly established residency program. And in addition to being an ER doctor, I’m also an underwater photographer.

Eric Sutton [00:02:59] Awesome. Welcome to the podcast, both of you. And thanks to you both for being here. I love that you both share outside passions that are focused on the ocean, or being in the ocean, and I know our listeners will be excited to get to know each of you a little bit more and take a deep dive – No pun intended – actually pun totally intended – into what draws each of you to the water and how these outside passions factor in to your medical careers. So, Dr. Ravitz, maybe could you talk a little bit about how your passion for surfing started and how long you’ve been at it? I know in your episode, you mentioned knowing you wanted to be a neurologist at age six, which blows my mind. Did your passion for surfing go back that far also?

Dr. Ravitz [00:03:48] Yes. So honestly, I grew up near the ocean and I think I was lucky enough to have parents that love the ocean. So, I was brought there at a young age. And actually, my uncle, may he rest in peace, was also a doctor and he was a big fisherman. So, I spent a lot of my time while growing up at an early age in the ocean, fishing, boogie boarding, swimming, looking for shells, snorkeling and always wanted to go from swimming to boogie boarding to surfing and continuing to just want to be in and on the ocean at all times or as much as possible. And I think I’ve always been attracted to brain science and brain wellness and how the brain works and consciousness. So, it was natural for me to look at being a neurologist. And that’s kind of how I got there. How about you, Dr. Atia?

Eric Sutton [00:04:50] Yeah, there was a photo of you, Dr. Atia, in your scuba gear at age seven in your episode. So I guess it goes back pretty far. How does your passion for being a doctor go back to age seven, so I guess it goes back pretty far. Does your passion for being a doctor also go back to age seven?

Dr. Atia [00:05:00] Yeah, Eric, I think I’ve always been a fish. I don’t think I knew I wanted to be a doctor till I started volunteering at the fire department when I was in in high school. And I kind of enjoyed that adrenaline and that kind of having to make decisions, critical decisions under immense cognitive stress. I really enjoyed that aspect of it. But yeah, that that photo that you’re mentioning is actually from 1994, I guess, as a seven-year-old from the Red Sea. And, you know, similar to Dr. Ravitz, my love for the ocean, as always, has always been a family thing. Runs in my blood. Actually, in my dad was in his early twenties, he was a scuba instructor on the Red Sea. And he introduced me to diving very early on, and my curiosity and passion, I guess, just grew from there. You know, there’s something just so special about that feeling of leaning your head back into the ocean. And I’m sure Dr. Ravitz experiences this, too, of that moment where you’re submerged. You can almost hear yourself think; your senses seem to heighten in a way. And all the, you know, the stress and anxiety just completely melts away. For me, when I’m scuba diving, I’m able to focus on my breath and on my buoyancy and really be so present in almost this meditative state. And then, you know, you put a camera in my hand and there’s that creative and artistic element to it. And as an ER doctor, I’m so accustomed to constantly being interrupted. And this, you know, the need for multitasking and “task-switching” as we prefer to call it. But, you know, underwater is that place where I can’t be disturbed or interrupted. There’s no monitor beeping or ventilator alarms. It’s just, you know, serene. I can’t imagine my life without those moments to balance me out.

Eric Sutton [00:06:38] Sure. Wow. Yeah, it’s really interesting to hear from both of you that these passions, both your, I guess, outside passion and your passion for medicine are both so deeply rooted in both of you and very impressive and inspiring, I think, probably for up and coming doctors in our audience to hear that it is actually possible to pursue even a really active outside passion while becoming a doctor, and then of course, continuing to practice as a doctor and loving your job and providing exceptional care to your patients, which of course, is a priority. And that’s what’s really at the core of the I’m Also A Doctor series. It’s about why you pursue both of those things and why having an outside passion has made you a better doctor, just like you’re talking about. So, you know, in watching both of your episodes, it struck me that you each talked about the importance of meditation, something like meditation and disconnection as a way to recharge, you know, and you both found that being in the ocean was therapeutic in that way. And I just love to talk about that notion a little bit more. Doctor Ravitz, as someone who specializes in the brain, I’m sure you probably have some interesting insight and perspective on this.

Dr. Ravitz [00:07:57] Yes. So, you know, many times a day, I get patients that ask me about focus and how to complete tasks. And I think in 2023, we are we have been completely derailed from the way that the brain wants to function. Truthfully, you know, the brain likes to do one task at a time and complete it. That’s really the truth. And I think our society has the opposite kind of expectation. You know, the more we can do, the sort of “better” we are. We’re really applauded for being able to be multitaskers. But the truth is, our brain doesn’t like it. And I think that is why we’re seeing so many people that feel like they can’t focus as well or can’t do things as well, you know. I have three machines sitting in front of me right now, and most people have the same and our brain just doesn’t like it. It’s really a simple answer. So, for me, you know, meditation is a great practice. It’s very hard to do, though. It’s hard to shut off the alarm or not peek at the screen and or actually have the time to do it. So, for me, when you go surfing, you can have the phone in the water now. And I have taken call in the water, which is kind of crazy. But, when I don’t, the only thing on my mind is really get to that spot that I need to be in. And then when you’re trying to catch a wave, it’s all about that. Your mind is clear, clearer than it’s ever been, because that’s the only thing that matters at that moment. So, for me, I find it to be a very meditative practice just by default. You can really get caught up in, you know, you have to do these tasks. You have to, especially as a doctor, you know, you have to do residency. You have to really focus on these many things, and you can forget about other things in your life that are really important. And this just helps your brain kind of remember how to do that.

Eric Sutton [00:09:45] Absolutely. That’s really interesting. It’s hard to shut off your brain when you’re working all day. I mean, even at my job, which is not nearly as I would think, hectic as being a doctor, It’s hard to switch from one task to another. And then it’s very hard to shut that off when you leave at the end of the day. So, I can see how, it’s an escape from. From the ins and outs of your daily life to do something like get on the surfboard and go out into the ocean. What about you, Dr. Atia, in what ways, does disconnecting through scuba diving help you as a doctor, do you think?

Dr. Atia [00:10:19] Yeah, I think that disconnect is like the perfect way to describe it. You know, it’s funny. Dr. Ravitz takes calls, but as an ER doctor, ironically, because I’m a shift worker, I really don’t take calls. So, there’s no emergencies for me, if you will. But, I don’t take my phone scuba diving. But now it sounds like these Apple Watches, you can take them underwater, and they can serve as dive computers. So, it’s going to be pretty soon that I’ll be looking through EKGs on my phone while I’m diving.

But, you know, I find that the diving helps me not only disconnect and enter this, you know, the meditative state that Dr. Ravitz was talking about, but also, for me, that photography aspect adds an element of creativity and the ability to get in touch with a little bit of more, my more artistic side and an outlet that obviously in my day to day life in the ER is not so available. And it turns out ER doctors are actually at particular high risk for burnout when we compare it to other medical specialties. And I find that my hobby, my interest, my passion, you know, whatever you want to call it, that disconnect really helps me with my thought clarity at work and helps me prevent burnout and exhaustion. And it makes intuitive sense, you know, that doctors who are happy outside of work and have fulfillment outside of work in a different way will perform better at work. That makes sense. But what we’re seeing, I think recently is a much broader effect on the medical system in general. In September, actually there was a, the BMJ published a large systemic review and meta analysis. So, essentially, a study that looks at many, many other studies. I think it ended up including, like, a quarter of a million providers, showing that physician burnout is not only associated with, you know, depression and suicidality, of course which makes sense, but is associated actually with poor functioning and sustainability of the health care systems in general. So, the organizations as a whole. And this is happening primarily by contributing to, you know, career disengagement and physician turnover, but secondarily by directly reducing the quality of the patient care. And the association with burnout and patient safety incidence was greatest in the youngest physicians and physicians in the emergency department and critical care. So, in short, burnout is affecting the care of the patients that need it most when they need it most. So our wellness is really our patient wellness. That’s what it translates to. So, I think it has an effect not only directly on me and my patient care, but probably on my hospital system as a whole.

Eric Sutton [00:12:51] Wow. Yeah, and it makes a whole lot of sense like you said, that your own mental wellness and emotional wellness would have a direct impact on your work and of course, on the work of those around you. And to your point, eventually the whole system. Very interesting. You know, what else is interesting to me about this is that, you know, typically when you think about disconnecting or being in the ocean as a way to manage stress, it feels like relaxation and calmness and the waves soothing you, you know, with one of those white noise machines or something. But both of your passions, to me anyway, sound like they’re actually quite physical, and I imagine, pretty heart-pumping. Doctor Atia, there must be a major rush that you get when you are up close and personal with a shark, I would think. How does that compare to, you know, the adrenaline-pumping work of the emergency room?

Dr. Atia [00:13:47] Yeah. So, I think adrenaline is a good way to describe how I felt in the ER when I, you know, was training and I was a resident. But as you become a more experienced clinician and have been exposed to more, you tend to be able to keep some of that excitement and those nerves at bay and actually remain quite calm in stressful situations, which is advantageous for patient care, you know, while maintaining that element of emotional connection, of course, and job satisfaction and trying to do best for your patients. But the cognitive overload and the constant interruptions are really what make my job challenging as an ER doctor and diving really breaks that up for me. But in terms of adrenaline underwater, you know, anyone who’s never swam with a shark before would obviously say it’s nerve-wracking and scary. But for anyone I’ve taken before and anyone that’s been in the water with them, they describe it as this like hypnotizing, beautiful, serene experience. And especially when you start realizing that they’re, you know, probably not as aggressive and angry and agitated as you see in the movies and sometimes in the media. So, you get a little bit of a different perspective and the way I like to describe it to people that have never been underwater is it’s kind of like being in an aquarium. You know, those long glass tubes, and you can see all the sharks and rays around you and your mouth is just open looking all around. That’s exactly how I feel underwater, obviously, with my mouth closed so I get water in my ventilator. You know, That’s how I would describe the feeling of being underwater with them. And again, my wife goes scuba diving with and I’ve taken plenty of my friends and they seem to agree that it’s adrenaline for five or ten minutes. And then it’s just like, serotonin and dopamine and all the good stuff. Especially even if you look at the statistics, you know, anytime, you hear about, obviously, shark bites and those are devastating. But statistically, it’s actually incredibly rare. So, when you look at the at the risks of being in the water with them, it’s relatively rare. It’s compared to, you know, driving on I-95 in Florida, which is obviously orders of magnitude more dangerous.

Eric Sutton [00:15:50] You know, I’ve heard that before, but somehow…I still take pause.

Dr. Atia [00:15:55] It doesn’t click, right?

Eric Sutton [00:15:58] Yeah, right. Right. But interesting, very interesting. And I can see that, you know, it takes you to like a sort of a Zen place, which is really cool to hear. Dr. Ravitz. what about for you? Is catching a wave more of like a thrilling thing for you or is that also sort of a calming, Zen experience for you?

Dr. Ravitz [00:16:17] So, it’s still actually really exhilarating every time I do it, which is kind of amazing, actually, that it doesn’t lose that. And there’s sort of a progression as the waves get bigger – that thrill is even more. You kind of get really focused to catch the wave, and then when you catch it, sometimes it’s this moment of, like, “Oh my gosh, I caught it,” and it’s amazing. So that part is calm, and just to add something as well, you know, I’ve definitely seen sharks surfing in different places, and a lot of sea life in general. You know, the first reaction is, is like this quick, your heart starts racing and you wonder what’s going to happen. You pick your feet up and it’s just, you know, it’s not like seeing it on a screen – it’s magical.

Eric Sutton [00:20:38] Wow, well, that’s really makes a lot of sense what you’re saying that, you know just that the pure you just beauty of nature is overwhelming probably in a lot of ways. Very cool. I can see why you keep coming back for more, right? Both of you. And how these passions developed, having that kind of experience over and over again probably starts to feel a little addictive and feels like you really need that to be yourself, to feel complete and whole. And, that kind of commitment also might translate into quite a significant amount of money. You know, like they say, time is money. And I think in this case, it’s no different. So, you know, it takes a long time, I would say, to become a skilled surfer or a skilled underwater photographer. And I imagine also a significant financial commitment to get the right gear, travel to the right locations around the world. So, let’s shift our perspective, if you don’t mind, to time management and personal finances a little bit. Dr. Atia, can we start with you? How do you balance scuba diving or underwater photography with the demanding work schedule of an ER doctor? And, you know, from a financial perspective, how did that balance sort of change throughout your career? Like, for example, were you able to to do any of this work during med school or residency?

Dr. Atia [00:18:38] Yeah. Eric So I guess medicine is somewhat of a delayed gratification. I don’t think I got in the water once throughout my seven years of med school and residency combined there. You know, obviously working 80-hour weeks makes it challenging to pursue any hobby besides sleep and eating. But you know, I would tell medical students and residents that it’s it’s worth the wait. And in terms of balancing work and personal life, it’s important to pick a specialty that you think will fit not only your interest but also your lifestyle and your passions. So, you know, for me, emergency medicine fits well. It offers that ability to work shifts and kind of stack my shifts a few days in a row. And so, yes, you’re working weekends and nights and holidays, but you also have that ability to mold your schedule a bit, to pursue outside interests and also it goes without saying it’s important to live in a place that allows for your hobbies to be easily accessible. So, if you’re a skier, maybe Florida’s not to be best decision unless you’re OK with transitioning to water skiing, right? But for me, the accessibility here from Florida to the Bahamas is amazing. And, you know, there’s a really cheap ferry actually that goes to to Bimini, the Bahamas, and you can take a day trip or even like a two-day trip and go diving. Also, there are several local dive sites. There’s a shore dive about an hour from my house. So, you know, I’ll fill my tank. That costs about ten bucks. And I’ve spent 2 hours in the water taking photos of seahorses and octopus and many other creatures that live in the in the shallows of Florida. So, there are definitely ways to incorporate all your hobbies into your daily life. While, you know, I guess being mindful of finances. In addition to that, you know, I would recommend as a doctor maybe using your skill to see if you can incorporate yourself into your field of interest. So, for me, for example, you know, I started reaching out to conservation organizations and helping them with some, you know, making their medical kits and providing some medical oversight. So, it was a way to kind of pursue my hobby in an easier financial way, because I’ve actually gone on several trips now by just kind of being the physician. So, I’ve done some oversight for Shark Week. And, you know, I’ve been to some pretty cool places. So, if you incorporate your skillset into your passion, I think that it offers you a way in, in a more financially sustainable way. You know, you have doctors like orthopedic doctors or like neurologists that are taking care of, for example, football players who, if you know, you love sports so you can be a team doctor or get involved in that way. And I think it opens up several doors. So, knowing how to sometimes connect the dots can make a big difference.

Eric Sutton [00:21:18] That makes a whole lot of sense. When you were in residency and medical school where you were, you were wanting to do the underwater photography and the scuba and you just weren’t able to, or is that a passion that sort of you just put on hold because you knew you were not going to have the time?

Dr. Atia [00:21:34] I was able to get a couple of snorkeling trips down in the south of Israel when I was in medical school. But with my old GoPro that barely even turned on. But unfortunately, underwater photography becomes more expensive. And, you know, to actually buy an underwater camera, I had to wait until a few months after I started my job as an Attending.

Eric Sutton [00:21:58] All right. I mean, I think that’s good news for, or at least important advice or insight for folks who might be listening, who, you know, have an outside passion they want to explore and maybe they can’t afford to now, you know, doesn’t mean that you won’t be able to find a way to do that in the future, particularly following in the career path of a doctor. So, Dr. Ravitz, what about you. In your docuseries episode, we saw you getting on the New York subway with your surfboard. Were you doing that during med school and residency also or, how did that work out for you from a financial perspective.

Dr. Ravitz [00:22:33] Yeah. So, I think surfing is a little bit, in all fairness, a little cheaper than scuba diving just because you don’t make sure you have all the equipment. And growing up doing it, I kind of figured out ways to get in the water, and get the equipment you need. So, for me, it’s interesting. I started my internship in Colorado, I actually did a lot of skiing growing up, too. I was a pretty active person, and I really liked it for about a year. And, I’ll be honest, I missed the ocean so much and the coast and changed my residency and moved to the coast.

But being a doctor is hard, and you don’t always have choices about where you’re going to go and how you’re going to live. But I think I spent a little extra time in my training to actually do that and be close to the ocean. So for me and I was in medical school in Philadelphia, so it’s about an hour and a half from the ocean. And in residency, I was lucky enough to be really on the ocean. So, I was able to continue to do that. And honestly, it really helped because residency was not easy. It was amazing and a great learning experience, but it was not easy. So, I think having those other things during that time –even if it’s just a little bit, even if it’s yoga or running or photography or whatever it is, even if you can do it just a little bit, even with those 80-hour weeks in the little time that you have off – I think it’s really important.

So I was pretty lucky to be able to do that. And then, I’d make it a point to – this is crazy too – but I would moonlight in residency, like my second and third year, so I could make money to go on surf trips. I also think Dr. Atia had a great point. You need to pick something you like. It’s really important. These passions that come; they’re part of us. And, I think it’s important to pursue them. And it’s also equally important to find that in the field that you’re studying and just go for it, because you have to do it for the rest of your life. And I think it’s really important to consider that.

Eric Sutton [00:24:42] Yeah, for both of you, you’re outside passions have created really cool opportunities for you, but you’ve also carved out opportunities  to do those outside interests as much as you could. And in fact, even in some cases made career decisions or, you know, location-based decisions based on being able to continue to to have both your medical passion and your outside passion attended to, which is which is really inspiring. So, Dr. Ravitz, you mentioned in the docuseries that you have been able to surf in Israel, France and Fiji. So, it made me wonder, what’s the farthest place that you’ve gone or maybe the most extreme thing you’ve done to be able to surf?

Dr. Ravitz [00:25:29] Yes. So, I think thus far the craziest thing was Fiji because it’s so far. But the other part is that this break in Fiji is out in the middle, not the middle of the ocean, but pretty far out in the ocean. So, you basically fly to this tiny chain of islands and then you get into a small little fishing boat type thing with like a little outboard motor and you go out about an hour and a half or two hours into the ocean and then all of a sudden the waves start breaking because there’s a shallow reef out there. So when you get out there, there’s no the horizon.

Eric Sutton [00:26:07] Land in sight?

Dr. Ravitz [00:26:08] The horizon is all water, there’s no land in sight. So, it’s a really weird, crazy thing. Actually, there were a lot of reef sharks, Dr. Atia, there as well.

Dr. Atia [00:26:17] Probably beautiful.

Dr. Ravitz [00:26:19] The water is so clear and it’s like bath water, and it’s like super clear so you can see everything and it was pretty cool and pretty scary because it looked super shallow. It actually wasn’t that shallow, maybe eight feet down. But probably the most adventurous thing I did and scary, but really cool and really amazing. And I’m grateful that it was able to do that.

Eric Sutton [00:26:45] Wow, that sounds incredible. What about you, Dr. Atia? Same question for you. I understand you actually have some travel coming up?

Dr. Atia [00:26:52] Yeah, Eric. You know, I was talking earlier about kind of meshing your skill set and your interests. And over the past few years, I was able to volunteer some time with National Geographic’s Lindblad Expeditions to be essentially expedition physician. So, you know, when not working, I get to actually enjoy the different trips that the guests go on. So, I’m actually going to Antarctica in South Georgia in in two weeks. In Antarctica, obviously down south to see some penguins and some whales and some leopard seals. But also South Georgia, which is a pretty isolated island, about 60 hours from Argentina by boat and has the largest amount of breeding penguins in the world. I think there’s like half a million penguins on that island. So, I’m very excited to photograph those. Obviously above water. The water’s a little bit too cold for me. I tend to be a tropical kind of guy. I’m very excited about that. So, another thing that I would never be able to afford, obviously these trips are crazy expensive, but I’m able I’m able to go by, kind of using my medical skills as a ticket on board. So I enjoy, you know, taking care of the patients if, God forbid, they need anything, but also enjoying the the nature of the places.

Eric Sutton [00:28:10] That’s great. Well, listen, I’m really grateful to both of you for sharing your really super interesting and inspiring stories with us. And, of course, I’m grateful that you both were part of our I’m Also a Doctor docuseries in the first place. I’d love to close out today’s discussion with the same open-ended question that we have asked the other three doctors in our previous I’m Also A Doctor episode and that is: What career advice would you share with folks who want to become doctors and who also have dual passions like you? You’ve also you’ve shared plenty of advice already, but if you had to nutshell it, what would that advice be? Dr. Ravitz, kick us off, if you don’t mind.

Dr. Ravitz [00:28:55] I think being a doctor is really special. I think that, you know, you have this long training, you have the opportunity to interact with people in a way that’s brutally honest and can really make a difference, I think, in people’s lives. And in turn, it actually reflects back on your life. I don’t know if that sounds cheesy, but I think over time I’ve really come to believe that. And I think that when you’re in training or when you’re in school, in your residency, you can lose that a little bit. You can kind of get stuck in the weeds of it. And I think that you just have to somehow remember and I think for me, surfing helps me remember that I’m not sure how or why, but I think I just feel lucky to be able to kind of do both things.

And I think being a doctor, it is definitely a passion, right? I don’t think people go into medicine anymore to make money or I mean, thank God we can make a good living. But, you know, I don’t think people go into it for those reasons that they may be used to go into it. And I think it’s an opportunity to do something amazing with your life and have a long, God willing, you know, a long, interesting career where you can continually learn and continually grow and continually do different things. And it’s kind of like surfing. It’s like a passion. You know, anything good takes some time and effort. And I think you have to try to remember that.

Eric Sutton [00:30:23] Dr. Atia, what about you?

Dr. Atia [00:30:26] Yeah, it’s. It’s hard to follow that. That was like a perfect summation. For me, residency felt sometimes as this black hole. I wasn’t seeing my family, I wasn’t doing what I love, I was never in the ocean. I, didn’t exercise as much as I should have. And it’s important to see, as you said, the light at the end of the tunnel and just know that those 80-hour weeks. There’s a reason for it. And one day, a family member is going to look at you and you’re going to realize that you did something amazing for their loved one. And it’s all going to be worth it. So, from that perspective, it’s kind of just having to power through that, and realizing that the rest of your life is not going to look like 80-hour weeks (unless maybe you’re a surgeon). I think that it’s important that we keep inspiring medical students and residents to see the light at the end of the tunnel, and we can definitely do a better job at that as educators and as clinicians. So, I really try to incorporate the residents in some of the stuff I do. So, I did a course for a conservation organization recently and three of my residents came and lectured and saw that their skills matter and that people want to listen and they want to learn, and that really gives you purpose and hopefully longevity. So, when you do things outside the hospital, even if it’s volunteering or helping out I think it goes a long way. So definitely continue obviously with your passions if you can. When you do things outside of the hospital, it reminds you that there’s a world outside of residency. So, I recommend as much as possible young clinicians do that.

Eric Sutton [00:32:17] Absolutely. That’s really good advice from both of you. Thank you very much. Very heartfelt advice. And I know it will be helpful insight and perspective for our listeners. So, thank you both very much again for being with us today. It was really an inspiring conversation and an awesome reminder that, you know, in order to really be the best at what you do, it’s important that you live your very best and most authentic life. And so we’re all very thankful to be reminded of that today. Thank you again, Dr. Ravitz and Dr. Atia.

Dr. Atia [00:32:54] It’s been a pleasure.

Dr. Ravitz [00:39:40] It’s been a pleasure as well. Thank you for having me.

Eric Sutton [00:32:57] To see I’m Also A Doctor episodes featuring today’s amazing guests, Dr. Atia and Dr. Ravitz, follow Laurel Road on Facebook and Instagram and visit us online at laurelroad.com/imalsoadoctor. Thanks to all of you listening. And please don’t forget to tune in to our next episode of Financing Ambition.

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Episode Notes

Watch all episodes of the I’m Also a Doctor docuseries here: https://www.laurelroad.com/imalsoadoctor

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Disclosures: 

This podcast is produced for information purposes only and is not an offer or solicitation of any product. Any views, opinions, findings and conclusions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the participants and do not necessarily reflect the views of Laurel Road or its affiliates. Laurel Road, KeyBank and its affiliates are not providing any financial, economic, legal, accounting or tax advice or recommendations in this podcast. The information contained in this recording may not be current, and Laurel Road has no obligation to provide any updates or changes. Neither Laurel Road nor any of its affiliates makes any representation or warranty, of any kind, as to the accuracy or completeness of the information in this podcast and expressly disclaims any and all liabilities around such.

Our guest(s) have received compensation for promoting Laurel Road. For more information and full disclosures, go to [Laurel Road-dot-com]. Loan approval is subject to credit approval and program guidelines. Programs, rates, terms and products vary and are subject to change at any time without notice. Unauthorized use or reproduction of this podcast is expressly prohibited. Student loans, mortgages, personal loans, and credit cards ARE NOT FDIC INSURED OR GUARANTEED. Laurel Road is a brand of KeyBank, Member FDIC, Equal Housing Lender and NMLS number 399797.