Unpacking a Summer of Student Loan News with JPG

Season 2, Episode 6

In this episode, GradFin Senior Manager Joseph Price-Gault (aka JPG) joins us to unpack a summer of back-to-back student loan news, including a big SCOTUS decision, recent changes to income-driven repayment (IDR), a lawsuit against the one-time IDR account adjustment, and the return of student loan payments this Fall.

Transcript

Eric Sutton [00:00:08] Everyone, this is Eric and you’re listening to Financing Ambition, a Laurel Road podcast. On today’s episode, we’re going to be talking about recent shifts in the federal student loan landscape and the return of student loan payments coming up this Fall. Between a big SCOTUS decision and recent changes to the federal income-driven repayment (IDR) programs, and a lawsuit about the one-time IDR account adjustment, it’s been a summer full of back-to-back announcements around student loans and it’s been a lot to keep up with.

So, to help unpack all of this summer’s student loan news and understand what it all means for borrowers, joining me today is Joseph Price-Gault, better known around these parts as the notorious JPG. He’s our Senior Manager of Loan Consultants at GradFin, which you may remember became a part of the Laurel Road family back in May of last year. JPG, thank you very much for being here with us today.

Joseph Price-Gault [00:01:15] Thank you, Eric. I’m excited to be here today and talk through some of these things.

Eric Sutton [00:01:20] Awesome. So, let’s start with a little backstory, if you wouldn’t mind, for our listeners so they can get to know you a little better. Why don’t you tell us where you’re based and maybe a bit about your background?

Joseph Price-Gault [00:01:31] Absolutely. So, I’m currently based out of Pittsburgh, PA. We have an office here of 11 consultants that I work with. And I came to GradFin about four years ago, in the summer of 2019, as a student loan consultant, and spent five years in retail banking prior to that. So, I have, at this point, close to ten years of lending experience and student loan experience, and grew with GradFin from student loan consultant over the years up to a senior consultant and then ultimately a senior manager as part of the acquisition when we joined the Laurel Road family.

Eric Sutton [00:02:06] Awesome. Okay, thanks for that introduction. We are very grateful to have you on the show today. So, let’s jump right in, if you don’t mind, into the student loan news cycle. Many federal student loan borrowers have had to digest some difficult news this summer. First part of that news happened on June 30th when the Supreme Court officially struck down the student loan debt relief plan that President Biden proposed back in August of 2022, which would have forgiven up to $20,000 for low- and middle- income borrowers.

So, JPG – knowing that many Laurel Road members are medical professionals – what does this particular announcement mean for them, do you think? And given that many of our Laurel Road members are enrolled in the Public Service Loan Forgiveness (PSLF) program, how does the Supreme Court’s decision around Biden’s debt relief plan impact them?

Joseph Price-Gault [00:03:06] This is something that I talked about when this plan first came about last summer. This really won’t have an impact on borrowers pursuing PSLF. PSLF is designed to give tax-free federal forgiveness on your student loan balance after 120 payments. So, if this had come to pass, it simply would have forgiven $10,000 or $20,000 of loan debt sooner. But you’d still have to make the same 120 payments. In most cases, your total sum of payments toward the loan would have been the same amount anyway. So, you don’t see the loan balance go down by the ten or $20,000, but PSLF borrowers are still going to yield the same impact over time because they do achieve, ultimately, that tax-free forgiveness through the PSLF program. So, you know, the average medical school graduate, they owe more than $250,990 in total student loan debt. So, even when we look at the total amount, ten or 20,000, that’s less than 10% of the overall loan balance in many cases.

So, to counteract this, the administration rolled out some revisions to income-driven repayment plans, particularly the SAVE plan, which stands for Saving on A Valuable Education. The administration had anticipated that the 10–$20,000 was going to be struck down, so they started working on this SAVE plan in January of this year. So, they were well-prepared for this happening. And this plan is actually going to, in many cases, for low-income borrowers, it will allow them to have as low as a $0 payment. It will potentially lead to forgiveness anyway. So, the 10–$20,000 didn’t happen upfront, but there are a lot of programs out there – new programs – that are working to have a similar impact for a lot of borrowers.

Eric Sutton [00:05:01] Okay. So, for the majority of early career doctors, the rejection of Biden’s original debt relief plan was probably not as disappointing for them as they might have feared. But it sounds like the new IDR plan – SAVE – could have a much more positive impact on them, as well as many other federal student loan borrowers. Could you just tell us a little more about how this new SAVE plan works?

Joseph Price-Gault [00:05:26] Absolutely. So, the SAVE plan is constructed really, really well. It’s replacing the REPAYE plan. So, any borrower who was enrolled on the REPAYE plan prior to the payment pause in March of 2020, they’ll see themselves automatically converted to the SAVE plan before repayment begins in October. Or, at least that’s what the Department of Education is stating should happen. So, this plan is really geared toward helping low-income borrowers and borrowers with undergraduate loan debt. With the income-driven plans, your income payment is based on what’s called your discretionary income, which is this particular calculation. So essentially, the SAVE plan increases the amount of income that is shielded from that calculation. So, it allows borrowers to make a little bit more money and still have a $0 payment, which really helps out. So, this is – like you said previously – this will allow some borrowers to have as low as a $0 monthly payment. Previously on IDR plans, what would happen is that if you have a $0 monthly payment, that would mean that all of the interest that accrues on your loan is going unpaid. So, your loan balance would actually end up going backwards – called negatively amortizing. The SAVE plan eliminates this from happening. So, borrowers who have a $0 payment or who have a payment that’s less than the accrued interest, they have the additional benefit that the government is going to subsidize the remaining unpaid interest each month and keep their loan balance from going backwards. So, this is really beneficial for borrowers who pursue this plan over the long run as an income-driven plan that’s designed to ultimately lead to forgiveness.

So, you know, the other piece is that previously on the REPAYE plan, you couldn’t file your taxes separately from your spouse and shield their income. If you were married, they looked at both incomes in the household to calculate your payment, regardless of how you filed your taxes. This, in a lot of cases, caused a lot of borrowers to have a much higher loan payment because they were married to a high-income earner. The SAVE plan allows you now to file your taxes separately and to withhold your spouse’s income from being used in your payment calculation. That’s going to be a big savings for a lot of borrowers.

And the other piece, too, is that this is open to any student loan borrower so long as they have direct government loans. So, if you have an FFEL from that older loan program, you do need to consolidate that and get that into a Direct Loan and then you can be eligible for this SAVE plan. So, this is really going to be a big benefit for medical borrowers who are in residency and fellowship. Like you said, historically, what would happen is these borrowers would enroll in the income-driven plan to keep their payment low while in training, but then the balance would end up going backwards. It would negatively amortize. And in a lot of cases, these borrowers will pay the loans off over time. So, if they’re pursuing PSLF, it’s not as much of an issue. But if you’re a borrower who’s not pursuing PSLF and you refinance after training or you just simply pay the loan off in full, previously you had to pay all of that accrued interest. Now, with the SAVE plan, your balance can never go backwards. So, if you have unpaid interest, your balance and five years after training, say, is still the same as when you started paying. And it can make it a lot easier to pay that down over time and save so much money through this implementation of the interest subsidy.

Eric Sutton [00:08:52] Mmhmm. Okay. Well, thanks for that breakdown. That’s really helpful. It sounds like the SAVE plan is a really great option for folks. You mentioned that it’s replacing the REPAYE plan. Do borrowers that are currently enrolled in the REPAYE plan need to take any action to get on the SAVE plan, or what if you’ve enrolled in one of the other IDR plans and you want to switch into the SAVE plan?

Joseph Price-Gault [00:09:15] If you’re already enrolled in the REPAYE plan, you’ll automatically be switched into the SAVE plan, so you don’t have to worry about doing anything. In that case, if you are in any other type of payment plan prior to the payment pause in 2020, you will need to enroll in the SAVE plan at this point. So, you need to re-complete the income-driven application through the Student Aid website. And all you have to do is supply your most up-to-date income in order to enroll into that plan. Now, you do want to look carefully, because a lot of borrowers might have had lower income in the spring of 2020 when the loans paused. In those cases, they will be able to continue on that plan for the next six months when loan payments resume, so they might have a lower payment on an existing IDR plan than if they switched into the SAVE plan.

On the flip side, you have to look at if you are on one of those other plans where the interest continues to negatively amortize, is it worth it to stay on a plan for a lower payment? Or is it better to maybe switch into SAVE, have maybe a higher payment, but keep any unpaid interest from accruing on the loan? So, you can switch in to SAVE plan, but you really have to weigh the benefits depending on what your payment setup was prior to that pause over the next six months.

Eric Sutton [00:10:32] Okay. That sounds like a really good reason to have a consultation with an expert guide around your options here. And so, for the other three legacy IDR plans – which are Pay As You Earn (PAYE), Income-Contingent Repayment (ICR), or Income-Based Repayment (IBR) – what is happening with those plans?

Joseph Price-Gault [00:10:53] Historically, for a lot of borrowers, it’s been a decision between PAYE and REPAYE. This has really been the decision many borrowers had to make because PAYE allows you to file your taxes separately, whereas REPAYE doesn’t. So, with SAVE allowing you to file your taxes separately, that takes a lot of the reason to take PAYE off the table. As a result, PAYE is ultimately going to be retired as a new enrollment option. We suspect the summer of 2024. The exact date hasn’t been announced by the Department of Education, but that’s largely the industry expectation. There are some pros and cons. The PAYE plan is 20 years. The SAVE plan is 25 years. For folks pursuing long-term forgiveness, the PAYE plan calculates a slightly higher payment than the SAVE plan in some cases. So, you have to weigh the pros and cons of that over time. But that’s the PAYE plan. It’s ultimately going to be retired. As for the ICR plan – historically, this has been the plan for Parent Plus loans. So, if you have Parent Plus loans, if you took out loans for your student as a parent, this is the only income-driven plan actually that you are eligible for with those loans. And you have to consolidate your loans to enroll in the plan. Other borrowers have been able to use this plan if they don’t have Parent Plus loans. In certain cases, it makes sense. But again, that piece of it is going to be retired. So, we suspect summer of 2024, if you don’t have Parent Plus loans, you won’t be able to enroll in the income contingent plan longer. That’s another case where you would want to kind of do some foresight down the road to see if it makes sense to get into that now and stay in it.

So really, what’s going to come down to for most borrowers after next summer especially is SAVE or IBR. There are some key differences. The biggest one with SAVE is that the payment plan is uncapped, so however high your income goes over time, with an income-driven plan, you have to recertify your income at least every 12 months. As you make more money over time, your payment continues to increase. There’s no limit how high your payment can go. With the IBR plan, there is an eventual cap. The cap is unique for every borrower. It’s based on the ten-year standard payment for your loan balance at the time you enroll in repayment. So, it depends on your loans and your average interest rate on the loans. So, a few factors in there that make it unique for each borrower, but ultimately that can be cheaper long term depending on if you hit that cap, then the SAVE plan, and the key piece is if your SAVE payment is above the IBR, you can’t then enroll in the IBR to get that cap. So, you have to get into that plan before you would ultimately hit that cap. So, a lot of caveats between them. It’s not, unfortunately, as simple as just simply choose the SAVE plan because the cheapest monthly, we really have to do some long-term forecasting to make sure you get in the right plan. And if you need to get in a plan before it’s retired that you do that.

Eric Sutton [00:13:52] Okay. Those are really helpful clarifications. Thanks for that. So, it sounds like those legacy plans, or a couple of them, would be limited or phased out ultimately, and that SAVE and/or IBR will make the most sense for most people, but when you might enter into one and transfer over to the other, would be very specific to your loan scenario and certainly something to talk to an expert about.

So, while I’m on the subject of IDR news, I wanted to talk about a recent development around this one-time IDR account adjustment that we’ve mentioned, which is another of Biden’s student loan initiatives this year. And this one-time adjustment was designed to remedy some of the historical problems with the IDR and PSLF programs. And so, I happen to have a personal story about this IDR account adjustment, which GradFin Founder Chris Walters and I talked about in depth when we had him on the podcast back in the Spring of this year. So, to summarize, I learned earlier this year in conversation with Chris Walters, in fact, that I myself, along with, I want to say, like 9 million other borrowers that had FFEL loans, which you mentioned earlier, JPG, that those folks were eligible for forgiveness under this one-time account adjustment. So, in August there was a last-minute lawsuit that challenged this one-time adjustment. And so, those of us that were among these 9 million borrowers and this FFEL loan scenario, you know, were sort of unaware of whether we actually would be able to ultimately realize forgiveness or not. But that lawsuit has been dismissed. On August 14th, it was dismissed in federal court. And so, the US Department of Education really jumped into gear, and they’re now free to continue implementing this account adjustment and the associated forgiveness, and that’s exactly what they’ve done. Borrowers have already started receiving loan discharges. I, in fact, received an email about my personal loan scenario the day after this lawsuit was dismissed and I’m happy to report that my loans have been forgiven and my balance is paid in full. I ended up getting around $59,772, I think, in student loan forgiveness because I had been in an FFEL loan program, I consolidated to a direct program, and I had reached well over 240 qualifying payments under this adjustment, and therefore I was eligible for forgiveness right away. And that ended up happening, which is excellent. And I guess I’ll just close out by saying that if you are an FFEL loan holder or if you’re interested in any way in determining whether you’re eligible for this one-time adjustment, the deadline for doing so is coming up at the end of this year. So, I just want to encourage anyone listening to check out our original episode back from the Spring or just from today. Go ahead and contact a loan specialist and get that process started.

Joseph Price-Gault [00:17:26] Yeah, Eric, that is amazing that you received that forgiveness. So definitely congratulations on that. You are within the first tranche of borrowers who got that forgiveness taken care of. And you know, there’s a lot with this IDR adjustment.

So, you mentioned the FFEL and that’s a big piece of the borrowers, it’s anybody that’s still holding onto those FFEL loans to get those consolidated, get those into the direct program. And what’s unique about this and what’s really revolutionary is when you consolidate through the one-time adjustment, it will carry the entirety of your loan repayment history toward IDR, into the consolidated loan. So traditionally, before these adjustments came out, if you consolidated, that reset your payment count back to zero. So, if you’re pursuing PSLF for IDR where there’s a qualified payment count requirement to forgiveness, if you reset to zero, you lose all of that time spent previously. That’s a lot of money. So that’s really, really important for borrowers to take advantage before the end of the year, to get your loans into this current type and preserve that entire payment history.

Where we’re seeing a lot of other borrowers benefit from this, too, though, aren’t just FFEL borrowers, but borrowers with payment history discrepancies. So, what I mean by that is, say you went to undergraduate, you spent two years in repayment and then you returned to graduate school and took out an extra hundred or $200,000 worth of loans, and now you’re back into repayment. Well, now you have two separate repayment histories. You have one that’s two years above the newest loan. If you consolidate everything together by the end of the year, the IDR account adjustment or credit your loan total, the higher of the payment account. So, you can basically accelerate your graduate school loans two years closer to forgiveness, via PSLF or IDR over 20 or 25 years. So that’s and that equates to thousands, if not tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars in potential savings for many borrowers that they don’t even realize is out there. The one piece to keep in mind is, especially with FFEL borrowers, you want to act because this was one lawsuit that got thrown out of court. Thankfully. That’s not to say that other lawsuits couldn’t come about. And historically, the FFEL loans are the first to be blocked from any kind of adjustments because as tend to be held by private banks versus the Department of Education. That’s the way the loan program was designed. So, anyone with FFEL loans owes it to themselves to take action on this as soon as possible so that they’re not blocked from any kind of relief or further forgiven that sort of time.

Eric Sutton [00:20:10] Excellent. Really good advice there, too. And thank you for providing a little bit more detail around the FFEL process and exactly what folks can see if they if they were to look into consolidation into a direct loan and eventually seek IDR or PSLF for that matter. So, this is great. It’s much needed relief, obviously, for many federal borrowers. And that is amidst the hard reality, of course, that student loan payments are coming back this fall. And that is the second piece of this summer’s more difficult student loan news that I mentioned earlier. And that’s something that I’d love to talk about with you today. So, tied into the announcement that Biden’s original relief plan was struck down by the Supreme Court, was also the news that the pause on federal student loan interest and payments was finally coming to an end after three years and eight separate extensions.

Joseph Price-Gault [00:21:07] That’s right. So, you know, the federal student loan interest is going to resume on September 1st of 2023. So, right now, you log in and you see all of your loans at 0%. They’ll revert back to their original rates on September 1st and then accrual begin again. And then payments are expected to be due the following month in October of 2023. So, this is a big adjustment for millions of borrowers that haven’t had to factor in a student loan payment into their monthly budget since before the COVID-19 pandemic started. Or even borrowers who graduated during the payment pause – they have up to three years that they haven’t even had to really work this into the budget and have never had to make a payment before.

Eric Sutton [00:21:50] So I’m curious, JPG, as a student loan expert yourself, what are your thoughts on the return of monthly student loan payments and what should borrowers be doing to prepare to make these payments again in October?

Joseph Price-Gault [00:22:04] Yeah. So, this is going to be a big shift for pretty much every borrower that has a federal student loan that’s been paused. The biggest thing is to get prepared, like you said, it’s coming. The extensions are over and we have to get set up for that to start again.

So, the biggest thing is making a budget. You know, and I personally I have an Excel file where I track every dollar that goes in and out. And, you know, not everybody is to that level of detail maybe, but you really need to look and see where you are spending, because maybe it’s a couple hundred dollars, maybe it’s more that your payment is, but maybe don’t even realize it that that is in your budget. You might not realize that. So, if you take a look at, you know, what are you spending on monthly, what are the expenses, maybe you can cut down on some other things and find the room for this. You know, in the budget.

The other piece is to connect with your loan servicer. So that’s one of the most important things – get logged in. There’s a good chance that your loan servicer has changed since prior to the COVID pandemic. Some servicers have gone away and are no longer servicing loans and have transferred the loans elsewhere. So, you want to make sure you know what website to log into and how to access your account, and then also add in your bank account information. You know, make sure that everything is set up. If you auto debit your payment out of your account each month, you actually get a quarter of a percent discount on the student loan. A lot of borrowers aren’t aware of that. So, you want to make sure that’s all set up before October so that your payment drafts without any hiccups there.

And then, you know, the last thing is to just get educated on your options. Just because you were on one path in 2019, that doesn’t mean that four years later that’s still the same option, right? Your income may have changed, your family size may have changed. Any number of things could have changed for an option before that didn’t seem appropriate, might now make a lot more sense. So, you know, it’s really important to set up a consultation where we run through all of the federal options. There are eight different repayment options on the federal side for many borrowers. So, you want to talk through all those options and see which one ultimately does fit your budget. And if there is some forgiveness that you could ultimately take advantage of at the end of the day.

Eric Sutton [00:24:15] Okay. And one other thing folks might hear about related to payments resuming this fall is what’s being called an “on-ramp period.” Could you help clarify for our listeners what that is exactly?

Joseph Price-Gault [00:24:26] Absolutely. So, the Biden administration has taken a lot of steps to ensure the borrowers have as smooth a transition into repayment as possible. So, what this is allowing is the first 12 months of repayment if you are late or you missed your monthly student loan payment, that won’t be counted against you from a credit perspective, it won’t incur late fees or penalties in that way.

Now, this isn’t to be used as a 12-month forbearance extension in that case, because interest will still accrue through this on-ramp period. So, if you miss your monthly payment, that interest that it’s accrued during that time will not be subsidized the way it is with the SAVE plan. If you’re pursuing PSLF, those months that you don’t make a payment, won’t count toward 120 payments required for PSLF. So, this is simply to protect borrowers who might have trouble getting back into repayment from negative impacts and to give them the next year to get ready. But you want to get back into repayment as soon as possible. This is this is more of a safety net than something to be taken advantage of, really.

So, the big thing is the SAVE program. If your SAVE plan can get you a $0 monthly payment or a low monthly payment, and the rest of that interest is subsidized – take full advantage of that. It’s the same impact. If your payment is $0, that’s the same impact as not making a payment, but that counts toward the forgiveness time frame. So, you know, connect with your servicer, connect with the loan consultant, see what that looks like. And, you know, make sure you take advantage of that.

Eric Sutton [00:25:57] Okay. That makes a lot of sense. I guess I should also just caveat that, as with anything coming out of the Department of Education around student loans, some of these details are subject to change. So, we just want to make sure folks are doing the proper due diligence to make sure that what they’re what they’re doing with their student loans is, in fact, in accordance with the latest and greatest of those requirements.

So. thank you very much for explaining that one, JPG. We appreciate that. We’ve unpacked a lot of student loan news today together and hopefully we’re able to answer some of our listeners questions along the way. So, to close out today’s discussion with you, I’d like to ask if you could remind us of what questions our listeners could get answered by speaking with a student loan specialist.

Joseph Price-Gault [00:26:49] Absolutely, yeah. I always tell my borrowers when they start the student loan consultation, the goal by the end of it is for you to understand your options as well as I understand them as the loan expert. So, we’re going to make sure that you understand every option available to you throughout that consultation. What we’ll do is when you sign up for a consultation, we get you an onboarding form. We get everything set to be prepared ahead of the call, give you all the information you need to have ready for the call. That way, we can be as productive as possible in that half hour and we’re going to tear your loans apart. We’re going to analyze them, and you’ll look at all those eight different repayment options through the government. We also look at any kind of refinancing options as well. We explore everything, and we make sure that you understand what is the best option that fits within your situation. So, the great thing with us is we’re completely impartial. We offer refinancing. We offer forgiveness paths. At the end of the day, we’re going to lay it out so you know what your options are, and you can make the best choice. But ultimately, we’re going to do what’s in your best interest.

You know, if it’s the federal forgiveness programs, especially, we’re going to talk about PSLF. What do you have to do? How do you stay in compliance? Many borrowers who unfortunately get rejected from PSLF going about it on their own, they don’t realize all the compliance. They think it might be as simple as just making a monthly payment or working at a nonprofit, not realizing that there’s a plethora of paperwork that goes on the back end to keep you in compliance.

So, we’ll take a look at that and then ultimately give you a personalized plan. And the personalized plan is really the big thing, because a lot of times we’ll have two borrowers who were maybe classmates, they have similar incomes, similar loan debt, and we give them two totally separate plans because one might be married to a high-income earner and the other isn’t. And your marital status, your household income, that can completely change the loan set up. So, the consultations are really personalized. There isn’t a cookie cutter solution to the student loans. It’s all based on your situation, your loans and your budget. And our experts can help you navigate that every step of the way.

Eric Sutton [00:29:01] That’s right. All right. Thank you for that. And as always, will include a link to schedule a free student loan consultation in the episode notes. And I do hope many of our listeners will reach out for help. That is what we’re here for, after all. So, thanks for joining me today, JPG.

Joseph Price-Gault [00:29:15] Thank you for having me. It was great to have the opportunity and hopefully answer some of those questions and give a little more clarity on everything that’s been going on yet.

Eric Sutton [00:29:25] Yup, it’s been a very helpful conversation, I think. Thanks again and thank you out there for listening and for following our podcast. For more information on student loan forgiveness and repayment options, follow Laurel Road on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn and visit us online at laurelroad.com. We hope you’ll come back for our next episode of Financing Ambition.

Episode Notes

Schedule a free 30-minute forgiveness consultation with one of our GradFin student loan specialists here.

Disclosures: 

Only the U.S. Department of Education is able to make a final determination of whether a borrower’s payment history is compliant with federal repayment programs. See student archives for more details. This podcast is produced for information purposes only and is not an offer or solicitation of any product, any views, opinions, findings and conclusions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the participants and do not necessarily reflect the views of Laurel Road or its affiliates. Laurel Road, KeyBank and its affiliates are not providing any financial, economic, legal accounting or tax advice or recommendations in this podcast. The information contained in this recording may not be current, and Laurel Road has no obligation to provide any updates or changes. Neither Laurel Road nor any of its affiliates makes any representation or warranty of any kind as to the accuracy or completeness of the information in this podcast, and expressly disclaims any and all liability around such. Our guests may receive compensation for promoting Laurel Road. Unauthorized use or reproduction of this podcast is expressly prohibited. Loan approval is subject to credit approval and program guidelines. Programs, rates, terms and products vary and are subject to change at any time without notice. Student loans, mortgages, personal loans, and credit cards are not FDIC insured or guaranteed. For more information and disclosures, go to Laurel Road AECOM. Laurel Road is a brand of KeyBank member FDIC.

This podcast is produced for information purposes only and is not an offer or solicitation of any product. Any views, opinions, findings and conclusions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the participants and do not necessarily reflect the views of Laurel Road or its affiliates. Laurel Road, KeyBank and its affiliates are not providing any financial, economic, legal, accounting or tax advice or recommendations in this podcast. The information contained in this recording may not be current, and Laurel Road has no obligation to provide any updates or changes. Neither Laurel Road nor any of its affiliates makes any representation or warranty, of any kind, as to the accuracy or completeness of the information in this podcast and expressly disclaims any and all liabilities around such.

Our guest(s) have received compensation for promoting Laurel Road. For more information and full disclosures, go to [Laurel Road-dot-com]. Loan approval is subject to credit approval and program guidelines. Programs, rates, terms and products vary and are subject to change at any time without notice. Unauthorized use or reproduction of this podcast is expressly prohibited. Student loans, mortgages, personal loans, and credit cards ARE NOT FDIC INSURED OR GUARANTEED. Laurel Road is a brand of KeyBank, Member FDIC, Equal Housing Lender and NMLS number 399797.